May 16, 2016
Acting President,
IITK Alumni Association,
IIT Kanpur-208016
Dear Sir,
I would like to inform you that I expect a point-wise response to my letter from you as you are the one entitled on date, as the elected top Office bearer of IITKAA, to do that. I shall be expecting this in about 10 days from now.
With warm regards,
-
Dr.V.N.Sharma/ डा वी एन शर्मा
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12/05/2016
Dear Prof Kripa Shankar,
Spoken words have different meanings to different people at different
times. That is why in matters of laws or for any check and balance matter, a
meaning, interpretation and justification is found and confirmed only through
written words. You may have lots of spoken words behind your statements which I
cannot be aware of. So on face value I have to rely on the written documents
which are available in the form of AA Constitution & Bye-laws which are the
guiding factors all along. I have done just that. Pl. also remember that AA is
a registered society under a law and by-passing or overlooking that in such a
manner, as if it a piece of paper not to be bothered about or to be use as per
convenience of the Office bearers in office is not permitted.
Now para-wise response (Italics bold is comment of Prof Kripa Shankar.
My response is in plain fonts)
Para 1.
Such an interpretation that ‘the interim periods that
are not through elections are not regarded as terms’ This
interpretation of the term is not documented anywhere. So it is not acceptable unless it is
documented under some resolution of the AA Board. But whatever it was you never
gate-crashed to snatch the post of Secretary in AA. It must have been some
group of people who made you that. Why should you feel offended or hurt? All of
them are party to this.
I am not sure if I had a chance to introduce myself to you.
Definitely I would feel very sad if someone feels bitter about me without
knowing me. It is true that I did not have a chance of meeting you after
I left IITK in 1979. But I knew you before that and I feel for some reason I
was close to you for some time. Pl. note that my approach on issues is
impersonal. It will make no difference whether I know someone or not.
Did the previous Boards remained unmindful of the
constitution? I cannot answer that as I have no documents from the past to
scrutinise and comment on this. But my experience both in the past and present tell
me that Rules and laws are not conducive to the IITK soil. Even IITK AA BOD did
just that.
Para
2
ü For election through
internet one does not have to be in IITK campus. Since all FM or IITK employees
look at their e-mails many a times every day they can take part in election in
summer vacation too.
ü Crossing 3 months
timeline and fixing December is a serious violation of the Constitution &
Bye-laws. Not acceptable in law.
ü We also have to work
towards making the environment more conducive so that people come forward and
work for the AA. I think the AA is not in working mode and how AA can work
for the benefit for the members all this time if after every election AA takes
time towards making the environment more conducive so that people come forward
and work for the AA
ü We also have to review
the issues related to the election process including the software etc. since
last time and take the necessary steps so that some of the ugliness should not
repeat. We were told time and again that the Alma Shine software was
the culprit in the recent election and Brihaspati was a ready- made solution software.
It is not clear what are the issues related to software.
Para
3
Ø I was involved as
Vice Chairman and Chairman of Steel Executives Federation of India of Steel
Sector PSU for 14 years since 1983. There were no Mobile, no e-mail, hardly one
or two of members out of 45 members of the Apex Council with telephone. This is
in addition to the three examples cited in my prev note in tinyurl.com/iitk-byelaws
If running a Federation of Member Associations from a few dozen locations with members
demanding/ grievance handling on day to day basis did not require an Office
bearer from a given location I do not understand why should it happen in the
case of IITK AA.
Ø Since Alumni
employed at IITK are not interested why not ‘change the bye-laws/ constitution’.
After all the AA should be interested in functioning for its members benefit.
Para
4
v I am still on
similar job managing an All India Association and a Federation. I find no
problem with the Office Manager/ Office Secretary provided he is allowed to
work.
Para
5
a.
I don’t see
any reason why election for President should be held and those for Secretary
and Treasurer deferred to another date. My take is unchanged meaning thereby
election for all the three posts of President, Secretary and Treasurer
together within 3 months from 26th April 2016.
b.
Referendum also must be conducted to
amend the Sec 8 iii and iv and
11 f. of the Bye-laws concurrently along
with the election process, to remove the requirement of an Alumni located and
employed at IITK for the post of Secretary and Treasurer to make it effective
from the term 2018-20.
Sir, as you must have observed at the
end of it all that I do not find reason for changing my views on the issues
raised which is nothing but appealing to the BOD and through them the Members
of AA to enforce the constitution and bylaws and protect and preserve its
sanctity. There is nothing negotiable on this issue.
With warm regards,
-
Ph.: 9431102680, 0651-2441524
££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
2016-05-12 16:02 GMT+05:30 Kripa Shanker <ks@iitk.ac.in>:
Dr V N Sharma(1) While personally I agree with you that "Prof Kripa Shanker should notbe the Secretary", I wish to share with you the interpretation of the"term" given to me at the time when I expressed my reluctance to be theSecretary during 2014-16 slot. In 2010-12 and 2014-16 I was appointed bythe respective Board and did not made my entries throughelections/bye-elections. In 2012-14, it was through a regular election fora term and I served the full term. The interim periods that are notthrough elections are not regarded as terms. I am not sure if I had achance to introduce myself to you. Definitely I would feel very sad ifsome one feels bitter about me without knowing me. And, I am hurt.Because, once you listen to and go with friends, and spend time and energyfor the Association and then have to hear words in unpleasant tone, itfrustrates you. Did the previous Boards remained unmindful of theconstitution ? In fact one of them happens to be the chief architect ofthe present constitution.(2) Now let me explain the present situation. The present proposal of theterm upto December 31, 2016 is based on the fact that Institute will havesummer term till July end and most of the plausible candidates are likelyto be away. We also have to work towards making the environment moreconducive so that people come forward and work for the AA. We also have toreview the issues related to the election process including the softwareetc. since last time and take the necessary steps so that some of theugliness should not repeat.(3) Regarding your suggestion of the candidate for the post of Secretarybeing from out side the campus, I have seen the arguments for the last 30years, and it has not been found to be feasible. Presently, I personallyam of the opinion that both Treasurer and Secretary should be from thecampus. Just because in the recent election, no nominations for theseposts came therefore "change the constitution" is not a good approach. Forinstance, I would have half a dozen of reasons in favour of the presentpractice. Similarly many others with many other views ! I would like tohear all the views.(4) Having a manager to fully or partially replace the Secretary needs anin-depth study. Four times in the past it has been attempted (including analumnus retired from industry having very rich experience, a former Deanof Students Affairs and former Deputy Director having lots of acceptanceamongst alumni, an alumnus retired from defense, and recently an alumnusyoung but due to family reasons could work only from off the campus) - allhave failed.(5) Post the unfortunate and sad demise of Mr Gupta, and considering allthe practicalities and ground realities, I think elections for thepositions of President etc, can start. Soon after, the election for theSecretary and Treasurer be held.Regards------------------------------------- Prof. Kripa ShankerIndian Institute of Technology Kanpur
************************************
May 12, 2016.
Acting President,
IITK Alumni Association,
IIT Kanpur-208016
Sub: (1) Request to follow up the Constitution and Bye-Laws of the Alumni Association and conduct election for President, Secretary and Treasurer.
(2) to amend Sec 8iii, 8iv and 11f to permit all members of Alumni Association to contest for the post of Secretary and Treasurer
Dear Sir,
Thanks for your response dated 11th May 2016 to my various mails addressed to you on May 4, 5 and 6, 2016 though the content of your mail did not refer to the issues raised by me or to the suggestions made by Sri Dharam Vir, the former Vice President, wrt following the provisions contained in the constitution and bye-laws to fill up the vacant posts.
In the meantime I went through the Minutes of the joint meeting of the IITK AA BOD held on 26th April 2016
A. I have the following comment and observation to make esp. on sub-para 3.1.1 which reads as follows:
“3.1.1 Composition of the Board: The members present expressed concern over the vacant positions in the Board of Directors (2016-18). 3.1.1 For the positions of the Secretary and Treasurer, who come from within the Institute, it was felt that various operational activities and functions of the Alumni Association office should go on uninterrupted. It was unanimously decided that that the Secretary and Treasurer should continue till the new arrangements are made. Further, given that the Institute will have summer vacations till the end of July and there are several important activities already planned, after discussions, it was decided that both Secretary and Treasurer should be requested to continue till December 31 2016. Dr Kripa Shanker agreed. Since Dr Rajiv Gupta, Treasurer, was not present in the meeting, Dr Kripa Shanker was requested to contact him and include his consent along with the mutes of this meeting. (Dr Rajiv Gupta could be contacted on May 3 and he has given his consent to continue as Treasurer till December 31, 2016)“
My observation & suggestion: The above decision is not valid as they are in total disregard to the following provisions of the Bye-laws.
11. i. d. A member shall not be eligible to hold the same position in the Board for more than two terms.
My observation & suggestion: Prof Kripa Shankar who has held the post of Secretary in 2008-10 (part-term), 2010-12 (full term) and 2014-16 (part-term) is not eligible to continue. Therefore, in accordance with the provisions of the following sub-para, election must be held within three months for the post of Secretary and Treasurer.
11. vi. Un-Filled Posts:
If any of the post of Office Bearer is not filled up during elections, the Election Officer shall conduct election for the same within three months as per procedure mentioned above. In respect of other elected members of the Board, the incoming Board shall be competent to nominate a member of the General Body subject to fulfilling conditions of Clause 8 of the Constitution.
If any of the post of Office Bearer is not filled up during elections, the Election Officer shall conduct election for the same within three months as per procedure mentioned above. In respect of other elected members of the Board, the incoming Board shall be competent to nominate a member of the General Body subject to fulfilling conditions of Clause 8 of the Constitution.
B. With reference to sub-para 3.3 of the MOM which reads as
3.3 Acting President
The members present desired the Office to send an official note to all alumni informing that Mr. Pradeep Bhargava will be the Acting President till the Mr. Ram Kumar Gupta joins back.
My observation & suggestion: Now that Ram Kumar Gupta is no more the post of the President is required to be filled as per the following provision in the Bye-laws
14. Board Member Position Falling Vacant
ii. However, in case of office of President falling vacant due to any reason and the tenure left is more than a year; it shall be filled by way of an election in accordance with the procedure given in the By-Law 11. In other circumstance, the Vice President, who has got the higher votes in the election, shall be appointed as President for the remainder of the term. The office of the Vice- President so falling vacant shall be filled up out of the elected members of the Board. The resultant office of Member that has fallen vacant shall be filled by the Board.
ii. However, in case of office of President falling vacant due to any reason and the tenure left is more than a year; it shall be filled by way of an election in accordance with the procedure given in the By-Law 11. In other circumstance, the Vice President, who has got the higher votes in the election, shall be appointed as President for the remainder of the term. The office of the Vice- President so falling vacant shall be filled up out of the elected members of the Board. The resultant office of Member that has fallen vacant shall be filled by the Board.
B. Amending Sec 8 iii and iv and 11 f. of the Bye-laws of the AA
Further, I would like to draw your kind attention once again to my previous mail ref: tinyurl.com/iitk-byelaws wrt the post of Secretary and Treasurer (reserved so far for an Alumni employed with IITK) “To correct this scenario I suggest amending Sec 8 iii and iv and 11 f. of the Amended Bye-laws of the AA.
http://www.iitkalumni.org/files/Amended_Constitution_&_By-Laws.pdf A provision of appointed Office Manager or Office Secretary at IITK AA Office at IITK Campus may look after the routine work.”
Such provisions of reserved constituencies for the position of Office bearers or Principal Office bearers have not augured well in some cases in the past. It is better to act now by amending the Constitution & bye-laws appropriately. (Note: Office Bearers of IITK AA are defined in para 10 as President, Vice-Presidents, Secretary and Treasurer)
If necessary amendment is not made now trouble in having an IITK located/employed Alumni in future the AA’s functioning may be in ‘a lame-duck mode. I hope you understand that this will not be a healthy sign or modus operandi for an AA to function.
Sir, to facilitate the AA to follow the correct and valid path defined in the Constitution and Bye-laws of AA for better interaction and fruitful results I submit here the following as Executive summary of all that has been said above.
1. That, the present provisional arrangement shall not continue beyond 3 months from 26th April 2016.
2. That, the three posts of President, Secretary and Treasurer shall be filled by holding election within three months from 26th April 2016 following the process prescribed in the AA By-Laws
3. That, Sec 8 iii & iv and 11 f. of the Bye-laws should concurrently be amended, along with the election process, to remove the requirement of an Alumni located and employed at IITK for the post of Secretary and Treasurer to make it effective from the term 2018-20.
I earnestly appeal to you that as the current Head of the AA please follow the provisions of the Constitution and Bye-laws of AA in letter and spirit. Please get my above suggestions included in the Agenda of the next meeting and decided. Since the time is running out I suggest an alternative of holding either Skype meeting of the BOD or hold a tele conferencing to decide on the fresh election and amendments. I hope to hear from you soon, may be in two weeks or so.
With warm regards,
-
Dr.V.N.Sharma/ डा वी एन शर्मा
Ph.: 9431102680, 0651-2441524
Sent to:
To: president@iitkalumni.org
Cc: secretary@iitkalumni.org, pradeep@beyondblueadvisory.com
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: President IITKAA Date: 2016-05-11 22:59 GMT+05:30
Subject: Re: Constitutional provisions for filling Board Member Position Falling Vacant
To: Kripa Shanker
Cc: "Dr.V.N. Sharma"
Dear Dharamvirji and Dr Sharma
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Prof Venkatesh responded to above as follows
Good evening and sorry for the late reply. I got the access mail id late since I had requested for the reset of the password. It so happens with two mail ids registered , I have been using the pradeep@beyondblueadvisory.com .
Its been great Dr Kripa Shankar and Dr Rajiv Gupta both have agreed to continue as Secretary and the Treasurer. The minutes of the Joint meeting held on 26th April with agreed ratification shall be published .
We have already listed the Agenda for the next BoD and shall bring up the various topics that need attention.
Dharamvirji,
We do apologize for the missing out your mail id in the invite for the joint BoD in the mail id's . It was totally inadvertent . We hope to build on the good activities started so far and also the thoughts that have been planned out for the next two years.
We all have tremendous respect for you and we all shall continue to seek your support and guidance . We shall keep you posted on the activities.
Regards
Pradeep Bhargava
99 45 777 200
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Comments and queries from Dr.V.N.Sharma
Dear Prof Venkatesh,
- Since you were yourself one of the players involved in mudslinging and blame game you know it better and I cannot be a 'Match Referee in absentia' for that. But leaving aside the degree of contribution of each player, you agree with the bottom line that All was not well in IITKAA. Pl. stay there.
- It is good that for whatever reasons we are on the same page on amendment of the Constitution and Bye-laws of IITK AA and open sourcing of the positions of Secretary, Treasurer and Election Officer - deleting reserved constituency.
- With respect to the 2nd para of your message, as far as I know, the Director is the Head and custodian of the IITK Estate and only he is empowered to pass advice like taking the Office out, Holding Reunions outside etc. It would be better for you to take his clearance before getting out with such proposal in public domain.
- To the best of my knowledge large number of Alumni contributed financially to IITK in forms of Buildings, Research Funds, Travel Grants and Scholarships/ Fellowships etc. Once I was invited by DORA in June 2012, under RTI, to examine the records related to Fund raising through Alumni donations and their management, And IITK people had a lot of appreciation for the Alumni contribution and support to IITK.
- The post of DORA would not have been created with 'Resources and Alumni' clubbed together. Pl let us know how do you look at that? Pl. discuss these matters involving profit-loss account and contents of above para with Director and DORA and others.
I am endorsing a copy of this to others incl Director, Deans etc. for information
Before closing I would like to say that since I joined IITK in 1965 my vision of IITK was 'one of the the birth places of Noble Laureates'- each Student, Alumni and Faculty as one potential Noble Laureate. Managing AA affairs by IITK Faculty/Employee was always a mundane matter for me, not for brilliant Alumni and Faculty members to crebe about it.
With warm regards,
-
Dr.V.N.Sharma/ डा वी एन शर्मा
url: http://tinyurl.com/vns-brief
Cc: Director IIT KANPUR <director@iitk.ac.in>, doaa@iitk.ac.in, dosa@iitk.ac.in, dofa@iitk.ac.in, dord@iitk.ac.in, "B.V.PHANI" <dora@iitk.ac.in>, president@iitkalumni.org, secretary@iitkalumni.org, Ashok Gupta <gupta@ohio.edu>, Ishant Jain <ishantmiet@gmail.com>, Dharam Vir <d_vir@yahoo.com>, mustan tambawala <mustan15@yahoo.com>
Cc: Director IIT KANPUR <director@iitk.ac.in>, doaa@iitk.ac.in, dosa@iitk.ac.in, dofa@iitk.ac.in, dord@iitk.ac.in, "B.V.PHANI" <dora@iitk.ac.in>, president@iitkalumni.org, secretary@iitkalumni.org, Ashok Gupta <gupta@ohio.edu>, Ishant Jain <ishantmiet@gmail.com>, Dharam Vir <d_vir@yahoo.com>, mustan tambawala <mustan15@yahoo.com>
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2016-05-06 16:30 GMT+05:30 Venkatesh K Subramanian venkats@iitk.ac.in
Considering the lumpen manner in which the majority of the AA Board functioned in the last term, I fully understand why no member of the IITK faculty wants to be associated with the proceedings of the Alumni Association. After what I saw of how things worked, I knew I would be the last elected Secretary from the Campus for a long while.
I fully agree that these posts may be sourced from without. Further, as your assertions show, even the office can and should probably be shifted out of the campus, The reunions should be also held elsewhere, as holding them on campus without an in campus secretary and treasurer would be infeasible. At the same time the Institute is itself heavily burdened both logistically and financially in arranging and subsidizing these gala shows, while the benefit to the Institute from the perpetually (mal)functioning AA is hypothetical. This is the honest cost-benefit analysis, even with factoring the utterly degrading spats and copious mudslinging that accompanies every election.
Venkatesh
_________________________________________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Venkatesh K Subramanian [K S Venkatesh]
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OFFICE:
207A/ACES, Dept. of Electrical Engg.,
Indian Institute of Technology Kanpur
KANPUR - 208016 (INDIA)
Phone: ++91 512 259/392/679 7468/7846
FAX: ++91 512 259 0063
e-mail: venkats@iitk.ac.in
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May 06, 2016
To
Acting President,
IITKAA.
Dear Sir,
I draw your kind attention to the fact that no nomination for the post of Secretary and Treasurer, IITKAA in the recent election created a bottleneck in the functioning of the AA. The reason being that both the posts have to be filled compulsorily by the employees of IITK as per the existing provisions of IITK AA Bye-Laws.
- It is clear from this that IITK- employed- Alumni are no more interested in Alumni affair.
- A small group of IITK alumni employed there may form a coterie and misuse their influence. A compulsory provision, in fact, has led to imposition of superiority of Secretary/ Treasurer and disturbed the functioning of the AA in the past including in the recent elections
It is very important to understand why such a provision was required and introduced in sixties and seventies and why it can and should now be done away with. It was because in those days in sixties and seventies communications were slow and Post & Banks were working manually. It was OK then But now with faster communication available with e-mail, mobile phone etc and variety of Banking options like Internet Banking, Online Banking, Mobile Banking the above provision of compulsory residence or employment does not hold much water.
There is no special reason for Election Officer to be a Professor at IITK. To make the AA Election free and fair and free of any existing bias as a student or as a faculty against a candidate any alumni or even Society Registrar Officer nominated by Registrar of Societies can conduct the Elections.
I am sure each one of you have very similar experience but I would like to explain it by narrating 3 examples from my own working experience.
- As an Organising Secretary of All India Forum for Right To Education I from Ranchi as an Organising Secretary, Dr. Anil Sadgopal from Bhopal as President and Mrs.Geeta Athreya from Delhi operated a BOI Bank Account in Chittaranjan Park, Delhi,
- As an Organising Secretary and Editor (Newsletters) I operated another Account in SBI Ranchi with President Dr. Anil Sadgopal in Bhopal, Treasurer Guddi in Mumbai and another Org Secretary (General) Sri Ramesh Patnaik at Hyderabad.
- The Federation of Retired SAIL Employees (FORSE) headed by me as Chairman, with 1.10 lakh members located in all over India , operates an Account at PNB Rourkela with a provision that no Member Association shall have more than one post and no office bearer is required to be from Rourkela. Pl. think of it how all these Accounts were operated with all signatures of people hundreds and thousands km apart.
It may pl. be noted that in the above examples it was the real day to day working of the organisation with operations of Bank account as its one part.
To correct this scenario I suggest amending Sec 8 iii and iv and 11 f. of the Amended Bye-laws of the AA.
http://www.iitkalumni.org/files/Amended_Constitution_&_By-Laws.pdf A provision of appointed Office Manager or Office Secretary at IITK AA Office at IITK Campus may look after the routine work.
I am endorsing this to a few more Alumni for their opinion, if any. But you may feel free to circulate it to all Alumni through your official mail.
With warm regards,
-
Dr.V.N.Sharma/ डा वी एन शर्मा
Ph.: 9431102680, 0651-2441524
